Ordinarily, our impulse is to look away from what does not directly impact us. John Pilger is the absolute anti-thesis of looking away. Over the last 40 years, in the most profound sense, he has borne witness to the madness that men can create. He was there when the US bombed Cambodia — the equivalent of 5 Hiroshimas. He was there when they dropped chemicals — 6 pounds per head in Vietnam. He witnessed the unimaginable scale of atrocities in Rwanda, in South Africa, and the exterminations of aborigines in Australia. The sheer encyclopaedic scale of his work makes the darkness of our time visible. Each of his films makes us feel the outrage afresh. Pilger was named one of the 50 great icons of our time and was ranked fourth amongst Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi. This conversation with the legend explores the nexus of power with big money, media, and more.